"Mounted on Gatorboard with a white border you would have a very nice print. Glue a standoff on the back of the Gatorboard and you add dimensionality and interest to the scene."
As someone who produces hundreds of print for exhibitions and artists and photographers monthly. the suggestion above alone is only a short term way of display. the print has no protection both mechanically and against light.
If you want to display large prints, generally without glass is bets (although I have done framed pieces up to 3 meters long with glass) the print needs laminating.
A flat mat paper for example photo rag marks if you look at it wrong never mind fades in about 30 years (assuming using epson inks) without glass etc in front of it. to get 70 years + you need some kind of protection, for both technical and light protection, for example you can't really dust a print on a rag paper mounted on gatorboard
Les can add some detail here but I can a few finer points to clarify various things we do at the studio.
1. We use traditional mounts (museum board, hinged mounts, matting, glass, frames) with all archival materials for certain fine art investment grade prints.
2. We also do some hybrid open-faced no glass but archival grade materials with print attachment technics that can be replaced long down the road for certain display aesthetics and where there's virtually zero exposure to UV light.
3. We have a category where the primary mode is not a "collectable" investment grade display but instead the primary goal is decor, these are on various materials (some being fine art papers and pigmented ink) but all are coated either with a high quality spray like Moab desert spray or a water based roll-on coating such as Glamor 2.
I'm sure Les will chime in when he has the chance.
Hi Stephen! I'm in complete agreement with your take on the Gatorboard mounts. As Bob replied, this is a temporary decor solution and definitely not one we use for our fine art prints. We do open frame prints and use a high quality protective spray for certain installations or exhibitions, but for my fine art prints it's behind glass.
I am enjoying reading your articles and gleaning some tips to improve my panoramas.
I can see where using a 100mm + focal length lens can really add to your visual presentation of the panorama. The detail is enhanced and the distortion is minimized if not reduced.
I would like to read about the the use of a nodal bracket and how that helps.
My curiosity is getting to me as I am using my D700 for my practicing of shooting pans with 10 images in a row for a total of 20 and 30 images. What does it take as far as computer resources to process the large images that you produce? As it seems to take some serious hp just to do the images from my D700. It will really take some processing power and time to do the images from my D800.
I am hoping to get a great image that I can enlarge to 7 ft for the living room. I can see that following your newsletters.
Hi Christopher. Your question(s) are right on target. Yes, as you go to higher MP cameras it does tax your computer resources, but there are ways to deal with this. First, of course, is to stay current with the technology. If you are an Apple user (as I am), then moving to the M1 or M2 chips will help. I regularly do 10 row panos with 3-4 rows. The pano image in my studio is 15/row by 3 rows (actually it was 17 x 3, but I always take one extra in each row in case I need to crop a bit). One "secret" is to make is easier for your stitching program by using a nodal bracket and a 1/3 to 1/2 (I always use 1/3) overlap on a perfectly level tripod and camera. Also, if you shoot a complete row that only includes sky with no definition, the program will have difficulty stitching. A work around for that is to back off the focal length about to include small slices of the mountains or whatever so that the program can make sense of the scene. Whatever the issue there is usually a solution. Just keep at it. In the next couple weeks I'll be posting my pano checklist, so keep an eye out for it... AND USE IT!
Terrific reply. I will investigate a nodal bracket. (recommendations?)
There is one point you said about changing the focal length with the sky shots. Adobe PS merge will not accept images with different focal lengths, at least to my knowledge. Then that means bringing them in as layers and blending? That is where the extra shots would be beneficial and content aware. The 20 shop pan I did yesterday did include the tops of the mountains just to avoid that issue of the sky.
I do not think Les meant to say use a different focal length for shots within the same pano sequence, he was suggesting that you shoot it a little differently so that you don't have all blank sky in a strip. If that takes a shorter focal length for the whole sequence than do that.
Yes it takes a bunch of memory and CPU/GPU horsepower to make large panos, the number of stitched shots as well as the size of each shot are absolutely factors. As was in the article, for huge numbers of shots we often to a "dry run" on small jpeg images first to see if there are stitching problems and even whether we like the image before committing the time to doing RAW images. You may want to check out Les' blog for some tips on nodal point which can be tricky. The general approach is to use to skinny objects located as far as is practical from each other and the camera close to the near objects (we use poles, actually backdrop stands). As for focal length/FOV. Yes longer lenses can be better as far as distortion but the big reason is that with large numbers of shots (vs say 2 or 3) your effective FOV gets wider and wider as the number of shots grows. In a way it's like using a bigger and bigger sensor or piece of film. IE a 300mm lens on 8x10 film gives you a "normal" field of view so... you need to select a lens that with whatever number of shots you plan gives you the field of view you actually want to see in the final image (with some breathing room obviously as panos are never "perfect" except for those done with tilt/shift lenses or technical cameras with zero camera movement)
I recently upgraded my computer to do more work with PS images as the computer had run its course with 8 gig memory and a dual chip. Now I have 13 chips and 16 gig of ram. I was considering upping the ram to 32 gig to help in processing. Should I make the leap to 64 gig?
I have a good Nvidia graphics card and rarely do I hear the fans kick in.
I do over lap 1/3 to 1/2 of each image so that the software doesn't have to work so hard finding common points.
Hard to answer given the lack of info on all the specific components, only way to know is to test and see if it's acceptable to you. Having said that generic thing consider that Les' new 14in MacBook Pro with M1Pro chip runs circles around my 12 core Xeon with two AMD 4G VRAM dual gpu 64G RAM machine in every way. I am still satisfied with my machine and am not going to replace it for the heck of it given how well it has served me since 2014/2015 but very very difficult to compare numbers across generations of machines.
Hi Keith. The pano checklist should be available in a couple f weeks, so stay tuned. We have a few other things to get done first for this Substack newsletter.
We don't use that printer so we cannot answer specifically but generally while there is an absolute limit in terms of length it is typically never a practical issue in terms of real world prints. You should be able to print any reasonable aspect pano you make, 1:3 1:4 1:5 if the aspect ratio gets really crazy 17" is pretty narrow for a typical viewing distance of say a 17" x 1000" pano.
Look up the absolute max of that printer, its usually documented somewhere just to be safe.
Don't forget you can also slice up a GAINT pano and make multiple panels and put them back to gather which we do all the time for things like covering walls even though we have a 44" printer.
Good luck and feel free to get in touch with any specific projects.
Thanks for the comments, Scott. The checklist is forthcoming, so be on the lookout, but first a few other posts lined up. Please share your pano experiments with the community here.
I would love to see your pano checklist. Thanks for sharing the way you do. I appreciate your generosity.
Thanks, Steve. I will get to it within the next couple weeks. Stay tuned!
"Mounted on Gatorboard with a white border you would have a very nice print. Glue a standoff on the back of the Gatorboard and you add dimensionality and interest to the scene."
As someone who produces hundreds of print for exhibitions and artists and photographers monthly. the suggestion above alone is only a short term way of display. the print has no protection both mechanically and against light.
If you want to display large prints, generally without glass is bets (although I have done framed pieces up to 3 meters long with glass) the print needs laminating.
A flat mat paper for example photo rag marks if you look at it wrong never mind fades in about 30 years (assuming using epson inks) without glass etc in front of it. to get 70 years + you need some kind of protection, for both technical and light protection, for example you can't really dust a print on a rag paper mounted on gatorboard
Les can add some detail here but I can a few finer points to clarify various things we do at the studio.
1. We use traditional mounts (museum board, hinged mounts, matting, glass, frames) with all archival materials for certain fine art investment grade prints.
2. We also do some hybrid open-faced no glass but archival grade materials with print attachment technics that can be replaced long down the road for certain display aesthetics and where there's virtually zero exposure to UV light.
3. We have a category where the primary mode is not a "collectable" investment grade display but instead the primary goal is decor, these are on various materials (some being fine art papers and pigmented ink) but all are coated either with a high quality spray like Moab desert spray or a water based roll-on coating such as Glamor 2.
I'm sure Les will chime in when he has the chance.
Hi Stephen! I'm in complete agreement with your take on the Gatorboard mounts. As Bob replied, this is a temporary decor solution and definitely not one we use for our fine art prints. We do open frame prints and use a high quality protective spray for certain installations or exhibitions, but for my fine art prints it's behind glass.
Very interesting reading, but for me a faster and easier way is to shoot with a Linhof 617 Technorama.
I am enjoying reading your articles and gleaning some tips to improve my panoramas.
I can see where using a 100mm + focal length lens can really add to your visual presentation of the panorama. The detail is enhanced and the distortion is minimized if not reduced.
I would like to read about the the use of a nodal bracket and how that helps.
My curiosity is getting to me as I am using my D700 for my practicing of shooting pans with 10 images in a row for a total of 20 and 30 images. What does it take as far as computer resources to process the large images that you produce? As it seems to take some serious hp just to do the images from my D700. It will really take some processing power and time to do the images from my D800.
I am hoping to get a great image that I can enlarge to 7 ft for the living room. I can see that following your newsletters.
Hi Christopher. Your question(s) are right on target. Yes, as you go to higher MP cameras it does tax your computer resources, but there are ways to deal with this. First, of course, is to stay current with the technology. If you are an Apple user (as I am), then moving to the M1 or M2 chips will help. I regularly do 10 row panos with 3-4 rows. The pano image in my studio is 15/row by 3 rows (actually it was 17 x 3, but I always take one extra in each row in case I need to crop a bit). One "secret" is to make is easier for your stitching program by using a nodal bracket and a 1/3 to 1/2 (I always use 1/3) overlap on a perfectly level tripod and camera. Also, if you shoot a complete row that only includes sky with no definition, the program will have difficulty stitching. A work around for that is to back off the focal length about to include small slices of the mountains or whatever so that the program can make sense of the scene. Whatever the issue there is usually a solution. Just keep at it. In the next couple weeks I'll be posting my pano checklist, so keep an eye out for it... AND USE IT!
Terrific reply. I will investigate a nodal bracket. (recommendations?)
There is one point you said about changing the focal length with the sky shots. Adobe PS merge will not accept images with different focal lengths, at least to my knowledge. Then that means bringing them in as layers and blending? That is where the extra shots would be beneficial and content aware. The 20 shop pan I did yesterday did include the tops of the mountains just to avoid that issue of the sky.
I do not think Les meant to say use a different focal length for shots within the same pano sequence, he was suggesting that you shoot it a little differently so that you don't have all blank sky in a strip. If that takes a shorter focal length for the whole sequence than do that.
Bobs correct, Chris. That is what i meant. Sorry that i wasn’t clearer.
A few things...
Yes it takes a bunch of memory and CPU/GPU horsepower to make large panos, the number of stitched shots as well as the size of each shot are absolutely factors. As was in the article, for huge numbers of shots we often to a "dry run" on small jpeg images first to see if there are stitching problems and even whether we like the image before committing the time to doing RAW images. You may want to check out Les' blog for some tips on nodal point which can be tricky. The general approach is to use to skinny objects located as far as is practical from each other and the camera close to the near objects (we use poles, actually backdrop stands). As for focal length/FOV. Yes longer lenses can be better as far as distortion but the big reason is that with large numbers of shots (vs say 2 or 3) your effective FOV gets wider and wider as the number of shots grows. In a way it's like using a bigger and bigger sensor or piece of film. IE a 300mm lens on 8x10 film gives you a "normal" field of view so... you need to select a lens that with whatever number of shots you plan gives you the field of view you actually want to see in the final image (with some breathing room obviously as panos are never "perfect" except for those done with tilt/shift lenses or technical cameras with zero camera movement)
I recently upgraded my computer to do more work with PS images as the computer had run its course with 8 gig memory and a dual chip. Now I have 13 chips and 16 gig of ram. I was considering upping the ram to 32 gig to help in processing. Should I make the leap to 64 gig?
I have a good Nvidia graphics card and rarely do I hear the fans kick in.
I do over lap 1/3 to 1/2 of each image so that the software doesn't have to work so hard finding common points.
Thank you!
Hard to answer given the lack of info on all the specific components, only way to know is to test and see if it's acceptable to you. Having said that generic thing consider that Les' new 14in MacBook Pro with M1Pro chip runs circles around my 12 core Xeon with two AMD 4G VRAM dual gpu 64G RAM machine in every way. I am still satisfied with my machine and am not going to replace it for the heck of it given how well it has served me since 2014/2015 but very very difficult to compare numbers across generations of machines.
A very interesting and informative read Les. I too would love to see your pano checklist.
I use an Epson SC P800 printer with the roll paper attachment. Is there a formula for the optimum length of print for the 17” wide paper roll I use?
Many thanks for the advice.
Hi Keith. The pano checklist should be available in a couple f weeks, so stay tuned. We have a few other things to get done first for this Substack newsletter.
Keith,
We don't use that printer so we cannot answer specifically but generally while there is an absolute limit in terms of length it is typically never a practical issue in terms of real world prints. You should be able to print any reasonable aspect pano you make, 1:3 1:4 1:5 if the aspect ratio gets really crazy 17" is pretty narrow for a typical viewing distance of say a 17" x 1000" pano.
Look up the absolute max of that printer, its usually documented somewhere just to be safe.
Don't forget you can also slice up a GAINT pano and make multiple panels and put them back to gather which we do all the time for things like covering walls even though we have a 44" printer.
Good luck and feel free to get in touch with any specific projects.
RB
Thanks for the comments, Scott. The checklist is forthcoming, so be on the lookout, but first a few other posts lined up. Please share your pano experiments with the community here.